Jun 3, 2024
Join us in the studio with Tyler Sadek, Go MN!Project Manager, and Amanda Jensen-Stahl, Director of StrategicInitiatives at Minnesota General, as we explore the transformativeefforts of Minnesota's DIF Grant Go MN! This episode delves intoinnovative strategies designed to transition individuals withdisabilities from subminimum wage to competitive, integratedemployment.
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Amanda: Givethem the tools and resources to look at other ways to supportemployment instead of that 14 (C) certificate.
Tyler: Somuch great work to be done supporting with individuals withdisabilities across the country, and we really need people to helpimplement those innovative ideas so that we can serve these folkseven better. This type of work is extremely important, and if youhave a good team, I would dare even call this kind of workfun.
Amanda:Having that support is just so appreciated because there is alot of pieces to this. And when you know, hey, I can call up Brandiand Iowa and just kind of say, hey, how are you guys dealing withthis? That has just been really fantastic as well.
Intro Voice:Manager Minute brought to you by the VRTAC for QualityManagement, Conversations powered by VR, one manager at a time, oneminute at a time. Here is your host Carol Pankow.
Carol: Wellwelcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me in the studio today isTyler Sadek Go Minnesota project manager. And Amanda Jensen-Stahl,director of strategic initiatives with Minnesota General. So Tylerhow goes it in Minnesota?
Tyler: Thingsare going well. I think spring might finally be here, so I'm prettyhappy about that.
Carol: Yeah,I'm with you on that. I think we had spring, uh, in February andnow we're now we're having winter. It's like what? What ishappening?
Tyler: We'regonna give it another shot with spring.
Carol: I knowit, it's hysterical. And, Amanda, it's always good to see you. Howare you doing?
Amanda: I amgood, it's so good to see you, too, Carol.
Carol: Well,we've been delving into the RSA Disability Innovation Fund grants,and this series is focused on the SWTCIE grants, or sub minimumwage to competitive integrated employment. And the purpose of thisround of grants is to increase the opportunity for SWTCIE programparticipants, which includes students and youth with disabilitiesseeking subminimum wage employment and potential VR programapplicants or VR eligible individuals with disabilities who areemployed or contemplating employment at sub minimum wage to obtaincompetitive integrated employment, also known as CIE. Holy smokes,that's a lot. And I love nothing more than talking with myMinnesota general peeps. You guys always have so much going on. Andso for full disclosure for our listeners, before I retired from thestate of Minnesota, I was the Assistant commissioner of theWorkforce Services, part of the agency. I had the privilege ofhiring your director, Dee Torgerson, into her position. And I thinkthe world of Dee and the whole team there. So let's dig in. I'mexcited about what you're doing. So, Tyler, I know you had your sixmonth anniversary. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourselfand how you came to VR.
Tyler: Yeah,so I was working as a restaurant manager, actually, and Ivolunteered for an organization called Life Track. I'm doing resumereviews, mock interviews, things like that. And then eventually aposition opened up in business engagement, and I got hired. And inthat role, I was supporting their employment program for peoplewith disabilities as well as their other employment programs.Eventually, from that role, I moved into providing direct servicesto individuals with disabilities as a placement person, which Ireally loved. Eventually, another opportunity opened up at anorganization called Resource, and I was hired on to help lead adirect appropriation grant for a few years. So I continued to dothat, and then eventually I transitioned into an HR position,actually at a construction company called Parsons Electric, where Iwas responsible for community outreach, including working with VRSand other community organizations, as well as managing a fewemployee programs at the company. So in that role at ParsonsElectric, I got connected to the State Rehabilitation Council,where I served as a representative of business, industry and laborand then eventually served as the chair of that council for a fewyears. So that was eventually led me to learning about Go MN alittle bit. I saw the position opened up, I decided to apply andhere I am. It's been quite the journey to this role, but I feellike it's a good culmination of my experience working withemployers, doing placement, managing programs and leadingothers.
Carol: Thatis so cool. Our listeners always like to hear where people comefrom. It's like no one's journey in is ever clearly straight. It'sa long and winding road and you're a fellow placement person. Iused to do placement way back in the day. I have like fondness inmy heart for that. So that. Oh, very cool. Amanda, how about you?You know, I've known you, but I didn't know about your journey intoVR.
Amanda: Yes.So I went to school to become an English teacher. And then when Igot out of college, I had a hard time finding a job. And so I got ajob working with a CRP in Saint Paul. Shout out to Goodwill EasterSeals. And I fell in love with the work. I started doing jobplacement, job coaching and moved into a manager role where I wasoverseeing our placement team, our extended employment grant. Westarted an IPS program, so it was just an awesome, awesomeexperience. And then in 2015, a position became available at VRSfor an extended employment specialist. And I thought, hey, I'mgoing to jump at this opportunity to use my experience on the CRPside and bring it over to VRS and the state of Minnesota. And fromthere, I've had a lot of great opportunities. You mentioned WIOA, Icame in at the kind of ground level of when that was all starting,and got to build our process for career counseling, information andreferral. I started working with our interagency partnerships withDHS, our Medicaid agency, and our special education agency, andthen moved into overseeing business engagement, interagencypartnerships, and now director of strategic initiatives. So it'sbeen such a journey and just really incredible. And I'm gratefulfor all of those experiences because I think they all, you know,thinking about this dif grant and going, man, it is all serving usvery well. This is kind of a culmination of much of thatwork.
Carol: Thatis super cool. I didn't know that about your background. Either.And you've done a ton at Minnesota. I always think whenever yourname is tied to something, it's going to be stellar. It's going tobe terrific. I do, I think the world of you. So, Amanda, can yougive us a little snapshot of Minnesota general? Like how many staffdo you have in the agency and how many customers do you guys serve?Yes.
Amanda: So wehave 429 staff across the entire state, 23 field offices. And whenwe look at our last program year, so the last full program year of22, we served about 12,919 individuals. We had over 5000applications. And I'm really excited about our employment outcomerate is up over the last two years. So we're kind of building backfrom the pandemic, as I'm sure many folks are doing, and we'reseeing the numbers of folks applying for our services go up, aswell as those employment outcomes going up. So really happy thatwe're back to those pre-pandemic levels of people we're serving,which is just great news.
Carol: Thatis excellent to hear. I know folks really struggled. The pandemicjust like crashed our customers. A lot of them, they were afraid tocome out. I mean, they didn't want to be exposed to Covid and allof that. And it really decimated what the VR program was lookinglike. But we're seeing such a good rebound. You guys have also beenrebounding in your numbers of staff too, with your staff vacancyrate. So I know does put a lot of initiatives into place. So you'remuch you know, I think you're at 20 some percent and I know it'smuch lower than that.
Amanda: Yes,absolutely. Dee and others have done some really great work withour HR department and really being creative and innovative in howwe're recruiting staff, retaining staff, looking at all those waysto support staff with onboarding training. And we're reallystarting to see that dial shift where our vacancy rate is prettylow again. And we're back to kind of that pre-pandemic level. Sowe're really grateful for all those efforts. And just, you know,really, I know it's something that everyone struggles with, butjust really thinking about, okay, how do we make this work and howdo we make the state of Minnesota and VR's a really great place towork?
Carol:Excellent. I love to hear that. Now, I know Minnesota, youknow, kind of shifting to our diff. You know, Minnesota still has afair number of people who work at or are paid sub minimum wages. Sotell us a little bit about the project and what you're hoping toaccomplish. And Tyler I'm going to kick that to youfirst.
Tyler:Sure. So this is a disability innovationfund. So we are trying to develop innovative ways to serve peoplewith disabilities in the state. So for this project, we're workingwith the Institute for Community Inclusion at the University ofMassachusetts Boston, or ICI Boston, to pilot what's calledprogressive employment. So it's a dual customer model, meaning it'smeant to serve both employers and job seekers. And it really ismeant for people with limited or no work experience in competitive,integrated employment. So what's different about it is it's reallymeant to help people explore work, doing things like tours, jobshadows, work experience, learning more about what work means forthem, what their skills are, what their interests are. And thisproject is also focused in the growing high demand transportationindustry in Minnesota. So the hope is to help those that are eitherworking in Subminimum wage or considering working in Subminimumwage, explore opportunities in that transportation industry, andpotentially find competitive, integrated employment that's a fitfor them and for the employer. The idea is really that everybody isready for something, and we just need to meet people where they'reat, provide the support needed for them to be successful in thecommunity.
Carol: I lovethat. Can you talk a little bit more about the transportationindustry, like a little more specificity around that? What doesthat look like? Yeah, so.
Tyler: Thetransportation industry is huge and it does include transportationand material handling. So we are considering this pretty broadly.But it really I think most people think about, you know, mechanicsor drivers, but it's all those positions that support that work aswell. So it could be working in an office. It could be working withtechnology, working with your hands, working with people. But we dothink of transportation as very broad. And what's nice about thatis for the folks that we're serving, there is a good chance withhow broad this industry is that they can find that opportunity thatthey're looking for. So that was the emphasis in transportation. Iknow we'll mention Duluth later being a big transportation hub aswell.
Carol: Yeah,that makes sense, I get that. Amanda, did you have anything youwanted to add to that?
Amanda: Yeah,I'll just add a little bit more about just subminimum wage inMinnesota. And Minnesota has historically had a very large numberof individuals who have been working in subminimum wage employment.And, you know, when we wrote this grant two years ago now, even inthe last two years, things have shifted and changed in ways thatare so incredible. And I'm so excited about when we wrote it, wewere looking at the numbers and looking at things, and it just haschanged so much. So the first year back when we started doing thecareer counseling information referral process, we had almost12,000 individuals that we saw that first year for this last yearthat we have data, we're down to about 4500. So that is a huge,huge change. And then when we look at our pilot location, we aredown to like less than 100 people in the pilot location, perhapseven less than 50. And part of that is we're seeing providers justmove away from that 14 (C) certificate, even though it'stechnically still allowable in the state and at the federal level.But I think providers are just saying, you know what, we want tomove away from this. And this work really dovetails nicely withlots of other transformation initiatives that have been happeningin the state over the last few years to help support providers,give them the tools and resources to look at other ways to supportemployment instead of that 14 (C) certificate. Lots more to do, ofcourse, but it's just been really exciting to see this work that isjust happening right before our eyes. And I think for this grant,we've had to certainly adjust and kind of keep up with thosechanges as well.
Carol: Thatmakes my heart happy because I remember back in the day, more like14,000 way back when. And I used to actually work at the Departmentof Human Services, where we did licensing and rate setting and allthe different things for the various providers who were daytraining programs that did use, a lot of them use the 14 (C)certificates. It was kind of the way of life in Minnesota. So thatis such a huge move. I had no idea about the numbers. Now thatmakes my heart really happy. Excellent. Good on you. This is great,you guys. So for our listeners to Minnesota is really ageographically diverse state. I think for some people they thinkabout us. People be like, do you guys have, you know, plumbing andflush toilets? I've had people ask me that. I'm like, seriously, weare not out in the middle of the boondocks, but we do have areas ofthe state that really are super rural. And from top to bottom, thisstate, it is hours. It is a long way. If we're going to go fromhere to International Falls and such. Now, we do have our urbanareas and our extremely remote locations, and you guys are taking areally great approach with this project, focusing on northeastMinnesota and spreading out across the state. So how did you guyscome to settle on starting up in the Duluth area, and how are thosepartnerships developed?
Amanda: Greatquestion. One of the requirements when we were applying for thegrant is you had to pick a industry, and there were a coupledifferent options. And as Tyler mentioned, we decided on thetransportation industry. And the reason we did that is because whenwe looked at where were people already getting jobs at VRS acrossthe state and transportation and material moving was number oneover the last few years. So we thought, okay, people are alreadygetting a lot of jobs in that industry. And so we decided thatmakes sense. Let's do that. And then looking at Duluth, because itreally, for those of you who don't know, Duluth is right on LakeSuperior. And it is a transportation material moving hub. You seethose kind of ships and barges coming in and trains, and there'sjust there's a lot happening in the Duluth area, but it's alsosmall enough that it felt manageable for us, that we could reallyleverage some of the amazing partnerships that we already haveestablished in the Duluth area. The Duluth team is amazing becausepart of this work is really relying on our field team. So thatmanager and those staff that are in that office know thatarea.
They also have previous experienceworking on a large federal grant from a few years back. We had theSGA grant, the SGA project, and then just those partnerships of notonly employers and transportation partners, but our providers, ouremployment service providers, our relationship with our county, thewaiver case managers, and then our centers for Independent living.And really knowing that, okay, we've got something great happeningin Duluth and all the pieces were there. And so that's why wedecided we're going to start in Duluth. We're going to get this offthe ground, and then we can bring that to other parts of the stateand really leverage that team to then help mentor as we then go toother parts of the state. And they are also amazing and willing tobe flexible, knowing that this is a demonstration model. We'retrying some new things. We want to be innovative. And so whilewe've tried to kind of lay the groundwork, we know that we're goingto make changes and adjustments as we go. And they are right theregame to do that along with us.
Carol: Thatmakes so much sense now. Why, you know, talking about thetransportation history. And then why you picked Duluth? BecauseDuluth sits on the harbor. It's a lovely location. Like there'smajor shipping traffic in and out. I hadn't thought about all ofthat. When you think about the transportation industry, first thingI always come to mind, like semi-trucks, you know, it's thetruckers and there you go. But when, as Tyler described it, youknow, we're talking so much more broadly. There's a lots ofdifferent elements that are all around the transportation industry.That's pretty cool. So I know a lot of our DIF grantees have hadstruggles and challenges during year one of the grant because, youknow, you get notified maybe four days before it's the beginning ofthe federal fiscal year. And it's like, go and spend all that moneyright away. And so everybody's been talking about the challenges,and I wanted to find out what kind of challenges you all faced yearone and how you have dealt with them and overcome those. AndAmanda, I think I'll kick it to you first.
Amanda: Thankyou. I did mention this, but it really has had a huge impact on howwe've thought about this. But the changes in 14 (C) providers andSubminimum wage work, looking at our pilot location, many of theproviders have already in the time we applied and in the time we'replanning to get this up and running, have already moved away fromit. And so that has been a challenge for us to kind of think about,how do we think about those folks who have historically earnedsubminimum wages, who might be doing other types of work, but it'sstill not necessarily integrated? And thinking about kind of thatdefinition of contemplating and working with our RSA liaison tokind of work through that to say, hey, we've got a lot of changesin the landscape of this target population and working reallyclosely with liaison to help, you know, maybe kind of adjust how wemaybe thought about the population when we wrote the grant and thenreally thinking about how this project overlaps with much of theexisting work that we've done in Minnesota. I mentioned earlierworking with our Medicaid agency and our special education agency,and really thinking about how we serve individuals who arereceiving a Medicaid waiver and how we're leveraging thoserelationships with schools and serving youth with the mostsignificant disabilities. And we've spent a lot of work in how wepartner with county case managers, our schools and transitionprograms. And so being very mindful about how progressiveemployment and this project fits in with that work, and notduplicating or stepping on toes and then thinking aboutsustainability. So how we can kind of fit the progressiveemployment in with much of that work that's happening. So that's afew changes around Subminimum wages. I'll pass it over to Tyler totalk about some of the other challenges we faced.
Tyler: Yeah,I would only really highlight two. One I think a lot of people canrelate to is hiring is a challenge. It takes time to find the rightpeople to work through that process. I do think we really havefound some great people. I'll talk more about that in a secondhere. But that was a challenge. It takes time. It's hard to do thiswork when you don't have the people hired, but then the other oneand it relates to this. A lot of these things just take time. AsAmanda mentioned, this is a big project. So bringing those partnerstogether, getting contracts in place, just all that groundwork thathas to be laid. It just takes time. It's a challenge in the sensewe know this work has to be done, but as long as we're patient, aslong as we work through the process, as long as we stay determined,we've been able to work through those things, and we are gettingvery close to being able to get this off the ground.
Carol: I lovethat, you know, you both talked about groundwork, and I think,Amanda, that groundwork with, you know, the Department of HumanServices and the Department of Education, and I know that startedyears ago, where we were having those monthly meetings, the threeorganizations and DEED, you know, we're all talking together wayback in the day. I was still part of that. And I loved that becausewe had to really learn to speak each other's language, to start,and then really look at how we could blend and braid and worktogether. So we weren't duplicating, supplanting all those words,you know, and making sure. So the stage was really set. That istrue. And that will help with this whole effort. I think that'sgreat. And even all the groundwork, Tyler, that you guys have laidin the agency with working with HR and all those differentprocesses that have gotten so much better over time, helps for youto onboard and get the people in. So it seems like the stars allaligned and everything is coming together for you guys, I lovethat. So Tyler, what are some initial wins that you guys have beenseeing?
Tyler: Yeah,so building on that theme of groundwork, there's again, a lot thatgoes into it when I look back at the past. So I know you mentionedmy six month anniversary. I think I met about eight months now.Just the things we've been able to accomplish. So there's systemsthat are necessary to support this work. Customizing Workforce Onehas taken some time, but I think we've got a good system in place.We're going to be piloting a system called Salesforce. I'm suremany people are familiar with that, but that'll help us with ouremployer engagement, coordinating and organizing some of thoseefforts. I mentioned working with ICI Boston that has been bringingthem in and working closely with them has definitely been a win. Aswell as the Institute on Community Integration at the University ofMinnesota. They're going to be supporting this project as well. Sowe've just started to meet with them, bringing them into it. Andthen we also work with Mathematica as part of this project. So justall that groundwork, bringing in all these partners, gettingeverybody on the same page, I would definitely identify that as oneof the biggest wins. And then I just mentioned this, but and maybeI'm a little biased, but I do think we've hired some amazing peopleon this project. I'm really excited for the work to begin, for themto really, you know, flex their muscles and use their skills. Andthen just overall, not just the folks that we've hired, all thosepartners that I mentioned, I think we just have a great team forthe project. Everyone is very talented. We have some great teamcohesion. Everybody works very hard, so we're all ready to do somegood work for the people that we serve.
Carol: Yeah,you have a great foundation. Those groups that you all mentioned,Mathematica, and you've got ICI, and you've got also the UMassBoston people we’re well aware of all those folks and consider themour colleagues. They're great. You guys were smart and kind ofpulling the trifecta together to help support the project. So Iknow you're always looking forward and Duluth is the start. SoAmanda, what's your next focus area going to be?
Amanda: Weare focused on getting that pilot off the ground. And because ofthose changes of where Subminimum wage is at in Minnesota, we'rereally taking a look at in our proposal, we had identified someareas and we're rethinking that and really looking at where do westill have those higher numbers of people earning subminimum wageand looking at targeting those locations. So we have a highernumber in kind of central Minnesota as well as southeasternMinnesota. And so looking at kind of the lay of the land there withthose 14 (C) providers, that might still be providing that, becausewe want to make sure that we can leverage this grant to do the mostwork and do the most good, if you will. And so looking at shiftingfrom where we initially thought we had thought we'd do Metro insouthwest Minnesota, but now we're rethinking that and looking at,okay, where are our high numbers of subminimum wage workers? Andlet's go there.
Carol: So areyou thinking then would that be down, like in the Rochester area,sort of as kind of the if you're thinking about the state, I'mtrying to think I'm like east West. That was not always my bestsuit.
Amanda: Yeah.So down in southeast it would be like Rochester and Winona, thatarea.
Carol:Okay.
Amanda: Andthen central is kind of Saint Cloudish area. Saint Cloud Willmar,yeah.
Carol: Great.So what have you guys had for some takeaways that you've gainedfrom the project so far. And Tyler I'm going to kick it to youfirst.
Tyler: FirstI would say my primary takeaway and I'm still new but a lot goesinto this work. There are so many people involved. There are somany processes to follow and they can be very complicatedsometimes. So I know I mentioned this before, it just takes time.It takes patience, it takes working together. Determination thathas been my prime takeaway is just this is a big project. We justhave to kind of, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.But as long as we are focused on really doing our best to serve thepeople that we want to serve, and we're keeping them at the centerof all this work, then I have no doubt when all is said and done,we will be successful. We'll have achieved the mission of thisgrant. I just have to, for myself, even, just be patient. Take it aday at a time.
Carol: Howabout you, Amanda?
Amanda: Iwould say it takes a team. It's a big grant. It's a big project.And so I think that foundation that we've been laying with ourinternal VRS teams, shout out to the Duluth team and then ourpartners at ICI Boston and ICI Minnesota, we haven't mentioned ityet, but we have for business outreach, the Transportation Centerof Excellence in Minnesota. We have someone there who has beenhelping us think about outreach to business and kind of tappinginto what's happening from an education standpoint and working withthem. And then I also want to note, CSAVR has been doing acommunity of practice with the SWTCIE grant holders. So the stateshave been coming together on a monthly basis to just talk about howthis is working and sharing with each other and learning with eachother, and that has been really helpful. And then there's been someother like RSA and Mathematica have also held some meetings. So Ithink just it's helpful when you're doing something like this andyou're kind of in the weeds, it's nice to hear from other people,like you're not alone. Other people might be struggling or havingsuccesses, and just having that support is just so appreciatedbecause there is a lot of pieces to this. And, when you know, hey,I can call up Brandi and Iowa and just kind of say, hey, how areyou guys dealing with this? That has just been really fantastic aswell.
Carol: Well,and speaking of Brandi and Iowa, we just recorded with her lastmonth. And their SWTCIE Grant, which is fun. I had not heard thatCSVAR was doing this COP. I love that that is great because I knowthere's a lot that goes into the DIF just organizationally andadministratively because it's a different type of grant, adiscretionary grant from the feds. There's different reportingrequirements. And so sometimes states are not used to all of that.Like there's a high level of involvement from RSA. And so you'vegot a lot going on and people are kind of overwhelmed. It'sdifferent. And so having that support group is awesome I love that.Well, I know too, that we have different listeners who are on thefence. And we're anticipating another round of DIF grants comingagain with the large amount of monies that were relinquished in Reallotment. And so sometimes people, you know, they reach out andthey're like, well, like, should we do it or not? And do you allhave some advice for them if they're contemplating doing a DIF?Tyler, what would you tell folks about this?
Tyler: Icould understand looking at these grants, seeing them asintimidating. But I think to Amanda's point, if you do choose toapply, know that you are not doing it alone. We have definitelyleaned on other states who are doing similar work, and it bothhelps support our work as well as remind us that we are really inthis together. So I think that makes a huge difference if you dodecide to apply. But really, if you are contemplating applying fora DIF grant, I say go for it. There is so much great work to bedone supporting with individuals with disabilities across thecountry, and we really need people to help implement thoseinnovative ideas so that we can serve these folks even better. Sothis type of work is extremely important, and if you have a goodteam, I would dare even call this kind of work fun.
Carol:Hahaha. That is awesome! Well, I could see the fun on both ofyour faces because you're smiling. Our listeners can't see that,but you're both smiling from ear to ear. And I can tell the passionand you're very excited about what you're doing. I know you'rebuilding your website right now, so you may not have thatavailable, but if others wanted to connect with you, what wouldyour email addresses be?
Tyler: Oncewe get that website up, we'll let you know in case we canincorporate that somehow. But I can be reached atTyler.Sadek@State.MN.US and I'll spell that really quick, T y l e rdot s a d e k at state dot MN dot US.
Carol:Excellent. And Amanda, how about you?
Amanda: Okay,here's my email. Amanda. A m a n d a dot Jensen, J e n s e n,-Stahl, S t a h l, at State dot MN dot US.Amanda.Jensen-Stahl@State.MN.US
Carol:Excellent. Thank you both. You both have been terrific. I'mreally looking forward to connecting with you all again. A littlebit down the road, you know, as you get more time under your beltand we see how it's going. But this sounds amazing and really Iwish you the best of luck. Thanks for joining me today.
Tyler: Thankyou Carol.
Amanda: Thankyou Carol.
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